Monday, February 22, 2010

Not Sure...But I Think We Got Slammed...!

You know, I don't moderate my comments section. I've never felt the need!

By the same token, I normally don't delete the comments that are made. I just don't. I've been very fortunate in the fact that the discussions we have had here seem, for the most part, to be done in a respectful manner.

Yesterday, I feel that, for some reason, myself and my readers got slammed. Other than trying to tell you what was said, I decided to post the entire comment as it was made...and let you decide if it was a little over the edge. I've included my answer to the comment!

Anonymous said...

Oh, where to begin. First of all, don't fall into the typical socialist/marxist thinking of 'what is fair' for someone else to earn. Second, who are you to judge what this CEO makes either for a salary or a bonus? He was hired to do do a specific thing - performance based (as in accomplishing what the board members wanted him to do -COUNTER THE EFFECTS OF A DETERIORATING BUSINESS ENVIRONMENT. He did that by eliminating excess expenditures in personnel. Alcoa earned $11.2M in 2009, - earnings not profits. Basic business here, profits meaning after the overhead was paid and all accounts were settled.
By the comments I have read here, it sounds more like you want Obama to also take over Alcoa because it brought in earnings last year. Does this also mean, you want the grocer down the street to be taken over because he also had earnings last year? listen to yourselves. A bunch of pity parties. I know that it 'just not fair" that Klaus did his job and earned a bonus because he lived up to a contractual agreement.

Big business is not the enemy here. it is over-government and over taxation that has driven big business to shed workers. No amount of TARP or stimulus $$$$ is going to change this fact. Government has never created jobs, and never will. It is business that drives an economy. And for those economically-challenged, so save your ire and angst for the ever-growing government sector that produces no products or services.

By the way, had mr kleinfeld not made those choices, the entire corporation might well have gone belly up.

With regard to Home Depot, mere conjecture. If you are not a player in the big leagues, or have a background in micro and macro economics, stay out of financial discussions. It makes you all look very uneducated.

And finally, a business, large or small, does not owe you anything, other than what was agreed up at initial employment. In fact a business does not have to think of you at all. You all will fit in nicely in the FEMA camps. Three hots, a cot, and just the right kind of Kool-aid. Food stamps anyone? Section 8 housing anyone.

And no, I am not a troll. i am just tired of everyone expecting something for nothing, passing judgement one what a person should be entitled to, and just plain trying to get into someone else's wallet.

February 21, 2010 11:50 AM

HermitJim said...

Hey Anon 11:50...
Although you don't know me very well, I just wanted to say that everyone is still free to say what they think here.

Also, I just want to say thank you for your visit...

Now, first of all let me state that the bold type is mine, added because those areas really seem to be out of line to me.

Second, if the Mr./Ms. Anon had read the article and quoted it properly...they would have noticed that, according to the article, the CEO recieved 11.2M as a yearly wage and bonus, and that the money earned by Alcoa in 2009 was not mentioned.

Well, there you have it! The article was taken from the Houston Chronicle, the links provided to the story, and I still have the feeling that we have all been slammed for having and voicing our opinion!

Seems like I remember reading somewhere that Freedom of Speech was one of the rights that we still have!

Anyway, my friends, let's get some fresh coffee and sit in the kitchen for a bit.OK?


Adorabibble said...

anon 11:50, is a coward, hiding behind anonymity, real people with real voices and relevant opinions, discuss and not slander. he just doesn't have all the fact just the ones in his head, and that is all that matters.
I may not always agree but at least I am civil, and identifiable. I also use comment moderation.
hope ya have a great day and enjoy the coffee.

Dragon said...

stuff happens, They,ll get over themselves.

Billy Bob said...

People are angry. They say things.

Anonymous said...

Alcoa CEO earns $11.2M in 2009
By The Associated Press © 2010

Alcoa earned $11.2M in 2009, - earnings not profits. Basic business here, profits meaning after the overhead was paid and all accounts were settled.

Isn't there a decrepancy here with these two statements? Headline by AP says CEO earned. Anon says Alcoa earned. Which one earned...the company or the individual?

Anon has his right to speak and for that matter, aren't we all anonymous, one manner or another? Just look at our "signatures" as we each comment for Anon 'slamming': This is a friendly blog, so Hermit knock him off the screen!

I have a gut feeling who Anon may be. I think let you know of a follower who 'became' so just recently and certainly not a friendly,family blogger. Click/Check out your followers.

Regarding fema and koolaid: it is happening. Research will show this
When we don't even know what is happening on the next street or next village, what is being kept hidden from us throughout the world.

Overall, wherever we go, we are everyone seeing so many changes, there has to be something going down. As I commented recently, I noticed a drastuc change in the way an employee interacts with the customer. Frankly, I was stunned. Possibly each one was just exhausted.

A word to ANON: Respect. What you put out mirrors back to you...and may the day come that your belly touches your backbone! FS I don't get nor any gov. assistance but there are those who need help desperately so get the facts, Anon, get the facts before you start smarting off to someone quietly enjoying his coffee and interacting with other nice "folks".

I think today I will sign as anonymous too, being as I'm not fully awake enough to read news but NOT a CEO. I wonder if ANON knows how harmful aluminum is for human beings? Doesn't matter, does it...the money apparently is the main concern...always the M O N E Y! Oh me, oh my.

Anonymous said...

Uh..uh, I think I must pay more attention to my editing also. Told you "I'm not awake yet". Sorry for the mistakes.

Phelan said...

I must say that I agree with this point i am just tired of everyone expecting something for nothing, passing judgement (sic) one what a person should be entitled to, and just plain trying to get into someone else's (sic) wallet.

I work very very hard. I have never asked for help, although I have wonderful readers that took a chance on me and gave me a hand up. I have people that steal my chickens. I know not money, but now I know who it is, and I now know why and it has to do with me having more than them. It ticks me off, because I would rather they ask and I would help them if they were that hungry, but they are not, and they get state aid.

My mother taught me that big business was evil, my father taught me that behind every business was a small, struggling business that built itself up and made something of its self. Every small business strives to be successful, maybe not to wal-mart proportions, but they have goals and dreams. If they succeed, people buy the products willingly and they are not doing anything illegal, let them pay their ceo's what they want.

The choice of some words that your commenter has used are rather uncouth, and sounds like they were used out of frustration rather than malice. Which the person did say not a troll, just tired

I have felt that frustration, and have spoken out of turn before because of it.

Gen-IL Homesteader said...

I'm thinking that maybe anonymous was Kleinfeld!!!! :-)

Momlady said...

Just keep expressing your opinion and don't mind the person who disagrees. Like you said, it's still a free country, isn't it?

MikeP said...

Hermit Jim,

I love reading your blog because your sincere optimism and genuineness is a real treat every morning. I read Sunday's post and loved it. I read today's post and I just had to chime in with my thoughts.

I think its really sad that Anonymous fails to see the bigger picture here. His statement that, "a business, large or small, does not owe you anything, other than what was agreed up [sic] at initial employment" is 100% correct under American law. This falls in line with Anonymous said in the beginning of his comment: "I know that it 'just not fair" that Klaus did his job and earned a bonus because he lived up to a contractual agreement." Notice how this time Anonymous actually references American law. I think the reason why Hermit Jim posted the article on Sunday wasn't because Klaus should be held criminally or civilly liable and his actions should be punished by the government, but rather to point out the absurdities that play out because corporations only strive to keep their actions within the law, without any moral concerns.

Small businesses often aim to help and protect their workers because they understand that they are dealing with people, people who have families, and not just expenses. Large, public corporations are owned by the public and in the groupthink of shareholders votes and board rooms, everyone decides together that profits are the only important thing. This happens for a number of reasons: people invested in the company and would like to maximize their return because at the end of the day it is in their best interest, the board is allowed by law to do hurtful and unfair things in the "best interest" of the corporation which has come to exclusively mean profit (but shouldn't necessarily be the case), and every other public corporation has been doing this for years.

However, what Anonymous and many other corporations have forgotten is that contract law or employment law are where we as society have set the line for civil penalties and criminal punishment. They are by no means the moral choice. I would never even want morality to be codified, but its disappointing when we are reminded that every big business cares only about profits and not the repercussions of their actions.

Anonymous could have been correct when he said, "By the way, had mr kleinfeld not made those choices, the entire corporation might well have gone belly up," but I think that whatever Klaus' pay was, if he shrank it down to $1M (a top 1% income anywhere in the country), many jobs could have been saved. In fact, I will go into my typical socialist/marxist thinking of 'what is fair' for someone else to earn, because if there is anything that the Executive Pay Arms Race of the past two decades has proven its that CEOs pay is highly inflated and there's no end in sight. I think this leads to a gross stripping of capital from corporations, capital that could be reinvested in the company or distributed to the lowest earners so that they may have a more livable wage. So yes, I think that CEOs of public corporations need to have their pay capped by law, because that's the only thing they will work within.

Even without a change in law I think that a voluntary pay decrease like the one I suggested above for Klaus, would be the moral things to do, and in times like these I think it would also be the patriotic thing to do. A thank you to the country that helped so many small businesses become big businesses, and a thank you to the workers that were just as essential in that process. If companies actually did this then it would ease unemployment and all the other emergency measures the government has had to take recently. As Americans we aren't owed this, but I think all of us, especially those who are unemployed, would all appreciate it.

I'm hoping Anonymous' heart grows two sizes today.


Mayberry said...

Awwww, that was nuthin'! You should see some of the comments I get! For which I mash the "delete" button with glee. Welcome to my world, heh heh heh....

Anonymous said...

No, its not a so called "fair" life but it should be. I wouldn't know how to equalize situations, but wish I did. When extremely hard work breaks a body over time, its sad to know there's no compensation for the life you've contributed by the sweat of the brow. Then there are those who will tell you:"Die, damn you, die if you can't afford a doctor". Just a point from another Anonymous reader.

mmpaints said...

ROFL anon must be a Democrat/Liberal. What anon forgot to mention is..... WE have the right to not spend our hard earned dollars with that company. Businesses that can afford to give their CEOs millions of dollars in bonuses DO NOT in any way or form, deserve gov bailout money because it's MY money they're getting for free. WE do have a choice and WE will keep our freedom of speech, some of us are willing to die for it. Bet anon won't.

Ken said...

...the factory where i work was a 'mom and pop shop',family owned for thirty plus years,they took care of us,safety bonuses,Christmas bonuses,yearly evaluations that gave pay increases to those deserving of i said,they took care of those that took care of them...a little more than a few years ago,they got bought out by a 'national company',with multiple factories,and a 'board of directors'...they filled the heads of many with delusions of grandeur,promising great things to come because of their financial backing...alas,the 'fulltimers' have been cut by more than half,replaced by lower paid,unskilled temporary labor.Bonuses?...gone.Annual evaluations/pay increases?...gone.Valued employee input from company meetings?...gone.
...ever present "be thankful ya got a job" copout?...we got plenty of that...anyway,that's what i see when i hear about huge 'compensation' packages for company CEOs'...a pretty accurate picture of life in the factories of (un)America i suppose

Tatersmama said...

My mama always said that the best way to tell a true lady (or gentleman) is in how they respond to unkind words or criticism.

I'm proud to say that we seem to be in the company of a true gentleman here... aka HermitJim.

I'll have my coffee black, thank you, sir.

chinasyndrome said...

Mr Jim,that was a very dignified respone,I am sure I would not have been so nice.Good thing about America They can have their opinion and we can have ours we dont have to agree.Twerps line abou fema camps was out o line.
Good day to ya.

Anonymous said...

I was lucky enough to work for a company in Philadelphia, the CEO and CFO would pass up a bonus or a raise but use that to give to the people that worked for them, after all, if you dont have people doing the job you dont make money.

Since I was responsible for the warehouse, I had the responsibility of the people that worked for me, including temp workers. Now since it was a retail business the busy months were the last 6 months of the year. I HAD to depend on dependable Temps and regulars. The temps that i would have liked to have hired but couldnt I took a portion of my bonus and gave it to them. My xmas is gonna be fine or at least better than some of these guys scrapping by.
least I could do is help make it better. The whole idea has to flow down from the top! Thats a business model to follow!
Just my opinion,

Kyddryn said...

Gee whiz, Mister Hermit, sir...

I think there's a difference between pointing out morally bankrupt, ethically questionable business practices and demanding a cap or justification for earnings and bonuses.

I am all for a person being paid whatever the market will bear...for actually performing.

Cutting jobs is not's showing a false profit that will only last until there are no more employees and customers have fled seeking better service.

As for the whole Home Depot thing...that wasn't conjecture. I lived it, the whole bloody stupid mess. I watched from the inside as a once strong, proud, service oriented and profitable business was shredded so one man could make his numbers and collect his reward, a bloated, profit sucking tick killing the host animal before looking for new prey.

And no, I don't have anything against profit...I'm all for it. I am a huge fan of financial success...when it's honestly gained.

No, I'm not an economist...I'm rather ordinary, rather ordinarily educated and living a rather ordinary life...but I know the difference between earnings and profit and I know when something is rotten in Denmark, and if I sound ignorant when pointing it out, I don't much care...especially when I believe (or know) I'm right.

A person is entitled to what they earn. What I will argue is whether it's "earned" at all...which, I believe, was the whole point of the article and comments to begin with - not whether bonuses are fair or what anyone has a right to gain.

Shade and Sweetwater,
K (who thinks you're a gracious host, Mister Hermit, sir, and would be happy to add some lemon-poppyseed muffins to the klatch...because she's never too broke to bake!!)